It isn't 10% of $10M unless that's the person's Annual NJ Income Tax Bill. And a person making $15K isn't paying Income Taxes at all, but it sounds like they'll get a bigger earned income tax credit.

P.S. This is my favorite joke about people who think a "fair" tax cut means each person gets the same absolute amount - http://www.jumbojoke.com/how_tax_cuts_work.html

It is a flat break. My point was that a person who makes a lot more gets a lot bigger of a break that way. That is true for persons with the numbers I gave above, which I only put there to illustrate the point in numerical terms.

Christie's ploy is to move toward a flat tax and away from a progressive tax by baiting us with the idea that everybody is going to pay less tax.

This will further damage the economy.

Further damage the economy? High taxes are what damage the economy so anything that cuts spending and cut taxes is a boon to the economy.

Love the idea of a flat tax-that way EVERYONE pays their fair share! Nothing wrong with EVERYONE paying their fair share is there? As to education reform, sadly this country needs a complete overhaul of its education system, start by getting the Fed's out of our schools and giving control back to the states/schools etc.

Redrider765, taxes did not create the recent global financial crisis. Big money greed and a lack of government regulation did.

Raising taxes and chasing jobs out of the state will not help the economy at all but go ahead and pretend otherwise if you wish to be so deluded.

No one here said that we should raise taxes, Red. The point was that Christie isn't really about lowering taxes for everyone. He is particularly about lowering them for the very wealthy.

Why not a tax cut that cuts proportionately evenly across tax brackets?

The point is making it so that middle class and working class New Jerseyans are paying more of the total share of taxes and very wealthy persons are paying less of that total share.

Maybe the man figured out that people at the highest tax brackets were moving out of the state taking their incomes, their savings, their businesses and the jobs they were creating elsewhere. That would be my guess.

Red, you assume a great deal in suggesting that people who earn income de facto create jobs. A person can also make a lot of money for themself by destroying jobs. Shucks, a person can even make a lot of money for themself on a good day at Atlantic City.

The person who makes 50k and the person who makes a million both receive the same govt. services, roads, police, fire, on and on. Why shouldn't everyone be treated the same? Why shouldn't the tax cut be across the board? A person goes to medical school and becomes a heart surgeon. This doctor made a huge investment of time and money to achieve their goal. They doctor makes 750k per year which is more money than a person who became a mechanic and works hard and their pay is 100 k per year. Why do you feel compelled to penalize the doctor?

So Ridgewood Mon, what you are really asking is for your government to take from the “rich” and give to you? Interesting, and whom do you consider “rich?” Anyone making more than you? Best be careful, because if that is your mark, there are plenty who then look at you as ”rich!”

No Curt. I would like to see a tax break, specifically for middle and working class New Jerseyans. Not for very wealthy people who don't need it.

Since you ask, I don't expect that I will get anything directly out of this apart from living in a society with a healthier and better functioning economy, and that is more equitable and just.

I am happy to pay my fair share of taxes (which probably should be more than I am legally required to pay in the case of state and federal). And, of course, I expect everyone else to do so as well.

Oh, I see your point. You want to pay your fair share so long as someone else pays more than you, so your fair shares doesn’t cost you as much.

Did I get that right?

No Curt. Since you insist on making this personal, some would pay more then me but by far the most would (and ought) pay less then me. That's basically the sort of thing that we've got. And it is the sort of thing that every developed society in the world has always had. Nothing radical there.

It is a very basic point that a fair share is not the same amount for everyone. Money is a social measure and not a good, in itself, produced in isolation. Wealth, in particular, is entirely relative. It exists in relation to the wealth of others. And it exists in relation to such things as the base cost of living.

I’m not making this personal, just trying to figure out your view, which I think I have. Given your scale of More, Middle, Less, you are happy to be in the middle, because the More are paying more, so the middle pays less. Hey, isn’t that what I said before?

Who told you money is a social measure and not a good? They were wrong, on both counts. Money is neither a social measure or a good. Money is the barter we exchange for each others goods or services. Now wealth on the other hand, that is in and of itself someone’s personal property, no different than the car you drive is your personal property. So unless you are willing to let people less well off than you who can‘t afford a car to drive yours, why are you so quick to let them use the car of a rich person?

Curt, barter is a social activity. A person can't do it in isolation.

And I'm really not in the middle Curt.

Listen, if Warren Buffet gets up and says "please, tax me more" he is not saying so because he is jealous that Bill Gates has more than he does.

If Warren Buffett wants to pay more taxes, he is legally able. In fact, if he wanted to, he could write a check to the US Government for say 100 Million Dollars and say use this to pay down the debt, and the government would be obligated to do that.

So the question I have to Warren is -- Why doesn’t he put his money where his mouth is?

Wake-up -- Warren wants to be the Head of Treasury, so his name can live on, printed on our bills for all of eternity! So he sucks up to Obama’s wishes and spews his baloney.

No -- Money is the means in which we convey to each other our goods or services. We, a long time ago, gave up bartering and replaced it with money, because it is too cumbersome to carry the 40 pairs of shoes I made today to the grocery store to exchange them for a shopping cart full of food.

But even back in those days, let face facts -- The guy or gal who put their nose to the grindstone and pounded out 40 pairs of high quality shoes did a lot better in the grocery store than the person who laid in bed all day then jumped up and made one pair of poorly made shoes.

However, I guess in your mind that person should get the very same shopping cart full of food, as the person who work their butt off and made 40 pairs of high quality shoes. Because we all know shoes are a social measure, and should be passed about fairly, and I agree that is a great idea for the people who can only make 0 to 39 pairs of shoes a day, outside of the fact it will cap our society at one that can only make 39 pairs of shoes a day! No reason to do better, right?

Curt, you don't have a clue what goes on in my mind. So quit trying to speak for me and stop arguing against your own straw men.

No one has proposed capping anyone's profits. With a progressive tax, the wealthier a person is the wealthier they are allowed to remain.

Yes there are people who work hard and acquire a lot of money in the process. That are people who work hard and don't acquire a lot of money, people who don't work hard and either acquire a lot of money or don't. You are welcome to think that it usually goes according to merit, but if you think that it always goes according to merit then your view of the world is very provincial, or else delusional.

Of course money is a SOCIAL tool. And also, a long time ago people realized that a progressive system of taxation was a necessary means of funding basic societal infrastructure. Warren Buffet does not simply want to pay more taxes. He understands that all persons such as him have an obligation, out of very basic principles of fairness, to do so. And he understands that this is essential to a healthy functioning of the economy.

His case is a perfect example of why a person who supports progressive taxation have no motivation whatsoever from a desire to get at those wealthier then oneself, as you have accused. Frankly, I will do a lot better for myself financially if Christie has his way. At least in the short run. In the long run the drain from above will destroy us all.

Ridgewood mom, if it helps you understand, let's say for arguments sake he gives a 10% tax cut to anybody over $50k and a 50% (or 100%) tax cut to anybody under $40k. It is all the same - 50% or 100% of zero is zero. Didn't need public school (ha) for that. You are wrong, it won't ruin our economy, it will unleash it from the shackles of special interests and corruption and double dipping lifelong politicians. High taxes are the oxygen that corruption and statism need. Low taxes are freedom.

Such a person pays more tax because they get more income.

Either way, they get more.

So yes, obviously not equitable.

That it quite a presumption HobokenOwl.

Would you go so far as to say that a person who works 50 hours week at minimum wage "earns" less then a person who inherits money or wins the jackpot playing lotto?

You are playing games with semantics HobokenOwl.

People who acquire money don't necessarily earn it.

You are right, many people who acquire money don't necessarily earn it. And I would submit that those who use the power of the government to confiscate money from citizens so they can redistribute that money to themselves usually are the biggest culprits. Time to cut taxes so those who actually go out and earn money can keep more of what they earn.

ridgewood mom - we should have a flat tax where everybody pays the exact same $$ amount - that is a real flat tax.

" You can't expect to get more back on something you never put in. Jeesh." Hoboken Answer could not agree more, but sadly so many people do GET more then they actually ever put in!

Yes. In particular, many who make the very most at the top.

Ridgewood Mom- What exactly do the ones of the top get so much back of? I have been at both ends of the economical scale and I am befuddled at what "extras" the top gets. I know what "extras" the bottom gets and that is a shit load!

Well, money is a social construction so nobody grows their own money on a tree. Money is proportionately acquired through a hierarchical standing within collective enterprises.

Looking at the numbers, the bottom actually gets very little "extras" compared to what the top gets. But it is the assault upon the middle class (even the upper middle class) and the working class that is really at issue here. That is, people who get up every day and go to work who are seeing a significant reduction in their quality of life each day despite their working harder and growing more qualified by experience at the work they do. In other words, most New Jerseyans.

And it is these New Jerseyans that will see the greatest reduction to their quality of life by a move in the direction of a flat tax.

No, if anything it is an assault on the bloated and grossly overcompensated public sector. The man is trying to help all of us taxpayers w/o regards to class.

Ridgewoodmom-there is no reason that the Tax Code of this country needs to be longer then the Bible. Why make tax returns are 15 pages in length consisting of god knows how many forms attached to the 1040A. Just like education in this country the tax structure in this country needs to change--it can not get any worse then what we currently have.

Red, look at the numbers.

Karin, who do you think benefits from the elaborateness of the tax code? Lots of wiggle room there for people who can afford the best tax advice. Not so much for people who file the basic form or lack the extra schedules is there?

" Karin, who do you think benefits from the elaborateness of the tax code? Lots of wiggle room there for people who can afford the best tax advice. Not so much for people who file the basic form or lack the extra schedules is there?" Exactly RidgewoodMom! It should not tax a college degree in accounting to file your tax returns! It is time to simplify the system so that even a high-school drop out can fill out their own tax returns. One form is all that should be needed/ standard deductions and maybe deductions for charitable donations/work and medical care. why do I need to file a tax return that includes at minimum 6 different forms? Taxes do not have to be so complicated but if they were easier who /fairer alot of politicians would be out of jobs! We need tax reform (federal/state) and education reform but as long as people blindly vote along party lines/ believe the lies the media tells them about candidates etc. we are not gonna get anywhere, except further in the hole!

Ridgewood mom, the people who benefit the most from the long tax code are the politicians. they can offer loopholes to their 'servants', the taxpayers, who have to pay their way to freedom - i.e. poltical contributions. Most tax hike threats by the Democrats are just the equivalent of a shakedown. donate $$ to me or else I will raise your taxes. Donating to (i.e. bribing) Congressmen is much cheaper. If you also agree that the tax code should be much shorter, then you have the potential to be a solid tea-partier. congrats.

I completely agree with you, but by posting to Patch (I'm reading Chatham Patch) you are barking up the wrong tree. The reason that people live in Chatham is because they have been able to climb to the 1%, scrambling over the backs of minimum-wage workers all the while.

They are not all that bad Hugh. Some of the 1% are the most caring people I know. I know at least a few who want change to see change go in the right direction. Or better put, they want to stop seeing the radical changes that have been and are continuing to go on and a return to the previous ways that were more prosperous for the whole of the country.

Lovely town Chatham. Some very lovely people there.

Ridgewood mom, all those limousine liberals you know can voluntarily pay higher taxes. At least then, when they talk about higher taxes for all they are at least walking the walk. otherwise, they are just blowing smoke.

No, he is pushing local governments to cut spending b/c that little property tax freeze won't let them raise taxes to offset the loss in state aid. Past time the municipalities cut spending.

Where it is cutting spending it is cutting services.

RidgewoodMom- cutting spending is not an evil thing! All we do is spend, spend spend, if you want to continue the spending then yeah you are gonna have to raise taxes and not just on the rich. I for one want less government in my life not more!

No, it is only cutting services if your BOE opts to not trim the fat which I would suspect they have never done b/c they find it easier to get elected by pandering to BOE workers than the rest of the populace.

Ridgewood mom, most spending cuts would not be cutting services, they would be eliminating bureaucracy, waste, duplicative services, bureaucratic pension double dipping by lifelong politico-scum and other excess. Services would not be cut. The scaremongers always say "they will cut the firemen and the policemen" when in fact it is more like "they will cut the unnecessary middle management who do zippola."

Hmmmmm, hard to accelerate property taxes when the governor was nice enough to freeze them at a 2% CAGR.

Class war fare??? Really... It's union war fare! Who the heck gets paid out tens of thousands of dollars for not using sick time??? Who only pays $10 a month for there healthcare??? Who i ask??? UNIONs... It's not Christie that's is the enemy... It's these unions... They think they are owed everything... In todays economy every family has to sacafrice,, police rack up tons of overtime to get there pensions kicked up when they retire,, and if they retire when they are disabled! Get this! They don't pay taxes on there 100,000 a year pension that is paid by the tax payer... They contribute NADA TO There retirement! Then they go and get 2 more state jobs like the mayor of little falls and collect a total of THREE pensions! Ya gotta love the union mentality... The unions will ruin this country

from E.Dictionary.com - Communisim - a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

I dont think you have a point beyond general anger at those who disagree with you, Nick.

No John, Karl Marx is not my hero. Learn to speak for yourself and stop trying to misrepresent other people's views by trying to put words in their mouth.

Capitalism 101:
"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."
-Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature And Causes of the Wealth of Nations

Ridgewood Mom sounds like a Barry loving Socialist, practicing class warfare.

Gee Barry, do you think that Adam Smith was a socialist?

"Karl Marx -- Ridgewood Mom's hero."
"Barry loving Socialist, practicing class warfare."

Omigod, what idiotic comments. You should really hand your brain over to someone who is trained in their proper use.

Right wingers should NEVER quote Marx or call someone a socialist or say "class warfare" until they find out WTF THOSE THINGS MEAN. It's embarrassing.

Gee, Nick, there's no reason to think anyone in these postings dont know who Karl Marx is or what is meant by, "Barry-Loving Socialist". We also know, when people use personal insults, they generally have no valid points to make. Margerat Thatcher actually said that first. It's in the history books..

Wasn't Margaret Thatcher a communist Bill? Or was she a socialist? That's the same thing right?

RMom, that is the first time ive ever heard anyone ask if Margerat Thatcher is a socialist. Um, no. She was the leading member of Britain's Conservative Party an advocate of union reform.

Im guessing you're being sarcastic in your second question but i'll answer it - no socialism and communism arent the same thing. As i understand it, communism is government owned industry, versus the socialistic concept of private citizens owning equal shares (regardless of their individual contributions) of industry.

"communism is government owned industry, versus the socialistic concept of private citizens owning equal shares ... of industry.

And you just proved my point, Bill.

from E.Dictionary.com - Communisim - a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

I dont think you have a point beyond general anger at those who disagree with you, Nick.

"the socialistic concept of private citizens owning equal shares ... of industry"

Gibberish. But even so, given your own definition of socialism, how are liberals and Obama socialists, exactly? Income tax existed before Karl Marx wrote a single word, and bailouts have been accepted by both parties for many years (Richard "We're all Keynsians now" Nixon, for example)

That's what I mean about throwing around words that you don't understand. There's nothing "socialist" about Obama, and raising taxes doesn't make you a socialist (even though Obama has done nothing but lower taxes and lower public employment). So when you accuse everyone who disagrees with you a socialist, what do you mean exactly? Does it mean anything, or is it just an insult?

Nick, you sadi, "So when you accuse everyone who disagrees with you a socialist, what do you mean exactly? Does it mean anything, or is it just an insult?"

I never said that people who disagree with me are socialsts. I never said Obama is a socialist. Your not seeing straight. It doesnt make any sense to discuss any of this with you any longer. Good luck.

In other words, Bill, you've got nothing. That's OK. I didn't think you ever did. You only use the word "socialism" because it's what all the other cool wingnuts are saying.

"Hey folks, im out of this blog" -- Bill Porterfield
LOL. Predictable. Take your own cue Bill.

Nick - as i noted in my last post, you attribute quotes to me i never made. It's true, i have nothing for you.

Hey Ridgewood mom, he is primarily talking about a tax on land vs. income/wages. Back when he wrote the book, not everybody owned land or a house. Also, the 'progressive' taxes were of the order of magnitude of 3% instead of 1.5% or something like that. Big whoop. I think they were way before the Laffer Curve in terms of maximizing tax revenue.

Thanks, Mary. I've been staying away from some of the political discourse on this site as of late because some people have taken the discussions to vicious personal levels, and there is absolutely no need for that. And that's precisely why things are so difficult out there, because it's like we don't know how to be civil yet disagree. Shameful...

Sure, that is taxation. An imperfect system, for sure. Talk about "fair shares" coming from any one income bracket will always be generalizations. Surely, there are rich and poor alike who take more then they give/give more then they take. But what is the alternative to taxation? There are expenditures and taxes are the revenues that fund them.

If we can agree that a progressive income tax is the closest realizable thing to a fair system that we can come up with then the following should be obvious to us:

1. Chris Christie is deliberately playing with numbers so as to mask the fact that he is interested in instituting a tax break ONLY for the very wealthiest.

2. Chris Christie is dishonestly trying to make it look as if he is doing something to give everyone a break when he really isn't, and he knows this.

3. He is intent on doing this, specifically, by cutting away at infrastructure.

Further, Chris Christie's whole education reform agenda is not about reform whatsoever. It is another dishonest strategy to put the public schools on his chopping block.

-----

FWIW, I am absolutely in favor of tax cuts designed to specifically benefit the middle and working classes. I am no more so in favor of giving "handouts" to the very poor then I am in giving them to the very rich, whether in the form of particularized tax cuts (flat tax cuts) or as bailouts.

Half the country doesn't pay federal taxes because their under the federal poverty level of $22,350 for a family of 4, should we really tax them?

But Christie will fix all the problems by cutting 10% of state income tax

so if you make $20,000 a 10% tax cut = a whopping $35.00 savings (1.75% tax rate)
but if you make $500,000 a 10% tax cut = a whopping $4,485 (8.97% tax rate)

DONT DRINK THE KOOL AID!!!!!!!

Maybe Romney will throw some help to NJ when he is elected... Um let

The private sector pays the public sectors salary. The private sector has every right to say we're paying too much. Cutting back on government expenses is very much a solution.

"Should some of us be footing the bill for those who pay no taxes, receive food stamps and keep having child after child? Seriously"

Yes. Read any history books?

We should be investing in employing citizens so that they will contribute more to society. Less food stamps. More jobs.

Taxes should be reduced for the middle and lower income working people who have seen a recent significant reduction in their quality of life.

How Fox of you.

HobokenOwl,

Basically, I would undo all of the nonsense that has damaged and continues to damage our economy in recent times and help restore things to where they were before the downturn.

I would start with increased regulation of big money and increase taxation for those who are very well off proportionate to the degree that they are very well off.

Secondly, I would invest in a solid public infrastructure that would both create, as opposed to eliminate, jobs. This would raise the bar regarding working conditions for most persons, which would improve the standards expected from employers in the private sector as well, and would further stimulate small business growth via increased spending across the state.

Secondly, I would make real tax breaks to the middle and working classes which would relieve their costs of living and further stimulate spending. This would also increase cash flow to the rank and file of the private sector via increased spending by most New Jerseyans.

Congrats there Ridgewood Mom, you have just convinced almost every financial firm to leave the state taking their highly paid employees with them. Those highly compensated employees will now spend their hard earned money at small businesses in their new home states so those jobs will also be relocating outside of NJ. They will invest their money in their new home states, buy homes there, buy cars there, pay taxes there and all that economic activity will no longer flow through the state of New Jersey. Pennsylvania, Connecticut & the other states that attract these jobs and are the beneficiaries of your half-assed backwards policies thank you very very much!

BTW - now you can't claim you don't want to raise taxes b/c you just admitted as much right here.

HobokenOwl,

Addressing your point about multi-generational welfare recipients, the first thing I would do is cut certain aspects of the welfare program that I believe legitimately qualify as handouts. I do believe that there is much waste in the welfare system.

Simultaneous to this, I would legislate to improve working conditions for low income working people and, in particular, those who are just one step out of welfare. A big part of the problem is that this group doesn't do particularly better then those who stay on welfare so there is little short term incentive to get off the rolls.

Moving up and one day even joining the middle class needs to be a tangible and realizable goal for persons on welfare. Or, at least, such persons need to be able to see that doing the right things will lead them to a better way of life. They need to be able to see a direct path that is realistic for them to follow. And that path needs to have steps of gradual improvement to one's life that occur along the way.

If you ask one of these people why they stay on welfare they will tell you all of this- that they are better off on welfare then getting a low level job and that they will never make it past that point so there is no point in trying. None of them will tell you that they prefer their lifestyle over that of a billionaire. We need to get these people past defeatism.

Red,

If companies are so unethical that they will move to some place such as Guangzhou so that they can employ labor under subhuman conditions, which more and more of them are doing, then they will do so no matter what tax breaks NJ tries to cut them. To suggest there is anything legitimate (or even other then criminal) about this is about as unpatriotic as a person can be.

New Jersey offers great value for businesses that are interested in setting up in the NYC area.

There is nothing wrong with working hard. There is nothing wring with becoming wealthy in and of itself. There is plenty wrong with the facts that many work hard and do not become wealthy and that many who are wealthy o not become so by working hard.

Actually, Ridgewood Mom - A recent Univ. or Rochester study found that people who earn less than $20,000 a year, for instance, spent more than a third of their time in passive leisure, like kicking back and watching TV. By contrast, those earning more than $100,000 a year (more affluent than wealthy), spent less than a fifth of their time in passive leisure.

I've seen this first hand. In this country, working hard is generally rewarded. I challenge you to find a study that shows otherwise.

Could you post a link to the study? I'd like to see the particulars.

Whatever the particulars, are you only trying to make the point that, ON AVERAGE, persons who earn less income work fewer hours? Or are you attempting to suggest that individuals who have less income NECESSARILY work less and individuals who have more income NECESSARILY work more?

Ridgewood Mom - I'll share several articles with you on the wealthy working more. The info is readily available. Yes, on average, in the U.S. people who make more money, work more than those who make less.
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2007/03/the_theory_of_the_leisure_class.single.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2007/03/21/the-workaholic-rich/ http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/wp/wp2006/wp0602.pdf

Those that are rich also save their money! So many people are in debt in this country because they spend, spend, spend (just like our government) without the funds to pay the bills when they come in each month! People basically have no idea how to make a budget and live within their means!

OK, I read the entire Aguiar/Hurst article. I'm not sure if my doing so constitutes leisure time (since I am at work right now) but it certainly doesn't prove that rich people work harder then poor people. It only, sort of, attempts to correlate levels of educational attainment with certain cases of activity that it chooses to define as profitable or not to the economy.

Read a few of the comments to the Slate article.

Again, even if wealthy people do work more hours ON AVERAGE (which they very well may for all I know) they don't necessarily in any given random case. And that is, I think, enough of a point to invalidate the suggestion that hard work and being wealthy are somehow bound at the hip.

You hit the nail on the head, Edwin. Somewhere along the lines of getting so involved in my side over yours and the myriad tax laws and loopholes and special interests, we seem to have lost our work ethic.

TOO MUCH government regulation has gotten us where we are now. Who do you think controls Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? The federal gov't. They encouraged the banks to lend to those who couldn't afford to pay in a misguided attempt at fairness & equality. We all saw how that panned out. Failure & heartache for individuals and the rest of the country who suffered from the fallout.

The point of a flat tax is to eliminate the loopholes and tax exemptions for ALL. Yes, everyone. A flat PERCENTAGE is as fair as it gets. For the sake of argument, 10% of your EARNED income goes to taxes. For everyone, with no exceptions. If equality is what you are after, a flat tax is pretty much utopia. Equality does not mean that everyone should earn the same amount. It means that everyone pays the same ratio. If you make more, you pay more. If you make less, you pay less. Simple.

Governor Christie is the only one with enough common sense to see the faults of pandering to special interests & make the hard cuts where they are needed in order to get our state back to liquidity. Enough of the political protect-your-backers game. If only we could get Congress to vote out their own special interests like Christie is doing, our country would be in as good shape as our state.

Not attacking you, but I'll do my best to explain simple math!
NJ Income of $500,000 @ current tax rate of 8.97% = $44,850 you pay in taxes
Same rate with a 10% tax cut you pay $40,365.
$44850-40,365 = $4485 less in taxes

Its FANHOOD
I wonder after 4 years of free colledge if they will understand basic math?

FYI MOST of those 'rich' (not that they are) work 80+ hours a week. Most stayed in to study on Friday and Saturday nights while other kids partied. Most worked all weekend to get As. Many of those "rich" got there with lots of sweat, scholarships, and hard work. NJ is an expensive state to live in, so you might want to define 'rich' because what the rest of the country calls rich is 'working poor' in this state.
..
No, I'm not 'rich' but I do agree with a cut. NOW GET RID OF THE EXIT TAX!
..
As for education reform... ABOUT TIME!

In Shenzhen 13 year olds get to work well over 80 hours a week, for a little over $400 a yea,r to make iPods for Americans.

They are lazier and work less hard then those of us with more money. lol

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

There are many people who make very little money and are magnificent parents. There are many people who make tremendous amounts and are lousy parents. How much a person makes is an asinine measure of weather or not they should have a child. Children are not assets.

It's asinine to have children you cant afford to support. Especially having 3,4,5 children! Domestic abuse is far more rampant in lower income homes than higher ones.

Then I presume that you are in favor of increasing funding for better schools.

Mel's comment suggests not being able to pay for her kids' college tuition - nothing about funding for grade schools.

Do you consider a point of view that demands for fairness to be "unfair" then Bill?

There is nothing more fair than a flat tax system.

"There is nothing more fair than a flat tax system."

Wrong. And fortunately for the USA, the VAST majority of people agree with me. The flat tax is a dead issue, it will NEVER come to pass. Give it up. Come up with a better solution, one that has a chance in hell of ever happening.

Nick, more with the personal attacks rather than a valid point. Again, Christie enjoys a popular rating in this state - due to our wide and varied experiences.

You're a pretty sensitive guy, Bill, if you think that was a personal attack. Especially coming from someone who throws around words like "lazy" and "jealous".

Nick, i havent insulted posters here, as you have. I at least substantiated my claim of "Not fair!" by posting elsewhere here. that wealthier people generally work longer hours than those who protest that they make too little.

I'm not overly-sensitive. But personal insults dont contribute to any point. I could voice several assumptions i have about you, but that would just create meaningless anger.

"I could voice several assumptions i have about you, but that would just create meaningless anger."
You're a pip, Bill. You don't seem to have any problems making nasty generalizations, and in fact you seem quite proud of it. I don't care if you insulted other posters, you are insulting pretty much everyone. Can you see how insulting and dismissive you are to what amounts to a few million of your fellow Americans? Probably not.

And how would one go about honestly debating with someone who's sole point is that poor people are just lazy and jealous? Where would I start?

Nick - your response just proves my point. Again, glad the majority of people in NJ are behind Christie.

People who constantly take always use the fairness card as an excuse to ask for more. What a crock!

So then we are not disagreeing about the importance of things being "fair" then. We are very concerned with "fairness." We are just dealing with competing notions of "fairness." Right?

Im saying that,"It's not fair!" is the rallying cry of the lazy.

It sound to me like you are crying about it.

"Im saying that,"It's not fair!" is the rallying cry of the lazy."

Your thought processes are hopelessly skewed by your narrow experience. Don't trust your gut -- it's letting you down.

For a "blue state" it sure seems like more folks who see things in red are finding the excess leisure time required to spend posting comments on the NJ Patch.

They get to say classy and strong argumentative things like:

“if you wish to be so deluded.”

“The class warfare mentality”

“bloated and grossly overcompensated public sector”

“sounds like a Barry loving Socialist, practicing class warfare.”

“left this state so deep and in so much shit”

“well let's just face it the lazy class”

“What a crock!”

“cesspooled city.”

“Ridgewood Mom wants to”

“that is what you're spewing.”

“You would think that people like Ridgewoodmom”

What it means, RMom, is that hardworking people are angry enough with the tax and spend crowd that they're taking their time to get involved. Instead of sitting on my couch last night, i was at a Tea Party meeting in Elmswood Park.

Drinking Earl Grey on someone else's couch, then.

I suppose that you feel that the Occupy protestors are all a bunch of lazy bums with nothing else to do then, no?

Rmom, i take my personal time, outside of supporting myself and my family, to be involved in politics. The Occupiers sat on someone else's property and created $6million in damage (in nyc alone).

And, RMom, i was sitting on "someone else's couch" at the tea party meeting. It was standing room only. And we brought our own beverages and snacks. Very few people walked in empty handed, because that's the sort of people we are. Also, lots of middle class and working class cars in the parking lot.

And envy rears its ugly head.

"Christie's kids study in private schools because they can afford it."

Yes. And he is simply looking for ways to cut into the public system for the sake of greater take home for himself and his club.

Time to do away w/ defined benefit pension plans. If a 401K is good enough for the people who pay all the taxes in this state then it is good enough for the people who take all our tax dollars.

Ds: 100% with you on this. We should end all pensions in this country or enact pensions for all.

RMom - Obama sends his kids to private school too. Public education has been in decline since the 60s - the beginning of the "Great Society". In nyc, more money is spent per student in public education than just about anywhere else in the country. Charter schools are putting the lie to, "just give public ed more money".

1. I never said that Obama was in any better of a place on eduction then Christie is, Bill. You assume much about my political affiliations.

2. Where charter schools are outperforming non-charter public schools, they are generally better funded. Many charter schools do not outperform other public schools.

Yes, she wants you to pay more so she can take more and not have to foot the bill.

I doubt it. I would like to see REAL tax cuts for the overwhelming majority of New Jerseyans. I would bet that includes you.

Please Edward and Red, stop trying to say what I would like to do and let me say for myself what I would like to do.

A 10% across the board cut in income taxes is a cut for everyone who pays income taxes. Guess that concept is a bit complicated for you to understand though.

I am not arguing in favor of raising taxes Mario. Stop putting words in my mouth!

I am in favor of tax cuts of middle and lower income WORKING New Jerseyans. (Obviously I am not looking for anything for the unemployed, here, who do not pay taxes. I would like to see them back at work and paying taxes.)

Yes, that's what we were told. Get married, have kids, buy a car, a house, take a 30-year mortgage, save your pennies, wait a couple of years to replace the college-era futon with a proper sofa. Interest on those pennies and your income will keep increasing and you'll be able to live as well as your parents did. That is, until it doesn't happen any more. Funny thing, those parents bought the SAME houses in the SAME neighborhood on ONE salary.

I don't feel wronged KS. I am doing fine. I think that this is bad for most New Jerseyans and, ultimately, for the economy.

I don't care so much for "spewing" either, BTW.

I don't care for spewing either, so stop doing it... ;)

The middle class is getting a tax cut courtesy of Christie. Or do you have a problem with that?

No Red. The middle class will pay more for services elsewhere and/or lose them.

Over the last 2 decades there has been an exodus from NJ as far as Corporations...they are moving to NY STATE and PA. I have 1st hand knowledge, my business provides Benefits to sm ad mid size businesses. Many business have moved. I also teach CE credits in NJ and most professionals who take my courses are CPA's...they have lost many small business to the slowing economy and more to companies moving out of state...in order for an economy to thrieve like it or not, you need big bad corp. that provide jobs to the private sector and revenues to the stateor else it is nothing but a huge ponzi scheme...public sector workers can not sustain an economy by working and paying taxes...you need business cycle growth...with current fiscal and monetray policy in the state and the federal govt we cant grow, debt is too high and politcians spend too much money...like it or not we are a smaller version of Greece and time will only tell

Good points Mario.

Er, I was specifically referring to the point about the importance of the private sector.

Lori - the facts don't support you. http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_loses_70b_in_wealth_over_fo.html

BTW - did you ever wonder why so many finance jobs exist in NJ and CT? They left NYC b/c of the taxes. Now they are leaving NJ for the exact same reason.

NYC has more finance jobs then anywhere else Red.

And those jobs are leaving. UBS has their massive trading floor in CT. Goldman does some of their back office stuff in JC now. The small funds that are usually started by former big bank employees or guys who split off from existing funds to start their own shop are leaving NYC more and more often to set up shop. You have small brokers like Gleacher & Jefferies outside of NYC entirely. With the internet, most of those jobs can now be anywhere. Twenty years ago, all of these jobs would have been in NYC. High taxes chase jobs away and no amount of pretending otherwise will ever change that.

Look at NYC if you want to see how liberal politics crush middle class. There is no middle class left in that city except for govt employees. Finance jobs are leaving there in droves.

Lori...Go work in the private sector than, and just for facts...no one is complaining about salaries of teachers, the problem is the defined benefit system which pays their retirement benfits..in addition teachers take have additioanl perks with qulaified deduction to 403 b palns in addition to their pension...after retirement they are given health care benefits for life....if you want to talk about salaries, your conveinently leaving out Longevity Steps in the guide as well as College Credits to return to school to pay for the additional credits, now in some districts they do contribute to their healthcare benefits, but in most cases their familes and spouse are covered except for new teachers...so reform has taken shape, but teachers also earn money tutoring and coaching, in some case a teacher will coach 3 sports and add an additional 15K a year to their salary which is pensionable...I am for teachers but we need to keep the facts straight...the public school system needs to do away with tenure and it needs to cut administrative and supervisory staffs my 40%...BOE have negotiated these contracts, now that they are finally trying to reform them ...while you have teachers stating working without a contract which is an out an out lie, it is illegal for teachers to work without a contract, the old contract stands in force until the new contract is agreed on

"Rich" people won't leave NJ? Really? I'm originally from NC but have lived in NJ for 16 years. NC population has doubled since I was a kid, while NJ has stayed static. Take a trip to a place like Cary, NC, which used to be a small crossroads and is now a large, wealthy suburb filled with, you guessed it, hundreds if not thousands of NJ transplants. Face it, people of all income levels have been leaving NJ for years and will continue to do so until this state stops redistributing wealth to union loafers, freeloaders, career politicians, and, yes, those who become wealthy by leeching off the taxes or the rest of us.

Christie is cleaning up Corzine's mess....

Christie is cleaning up Corzines mess and Obama is cleaning up Bush's mess. So there we have it. I guess Congress is a good representation of the people. No one can agree on anything anymore. Reading these comments is just very sad. I am glad my children can't read this it's embarrassing to me to see adults sound so selfish and uncaring. Name calling and plain nasty! What happened to civility in this country? I like a healthy debate as much as anyone but why do these conversations always become so ugly? What's wrong with people? We should want what's best for everyone, we should want everyone to live healthy happy lives. It doesn't make me feel better when I know someone else is suffering. Life is hard and no one is getting out alive as they say. Maybe we should all go back to kindergarten and learn the basics of being good people :(

Thank you Jeff, my point...the lawmakers game of robin hood doesnt work...the state will soon tax us on "Air & water" if they can figure out how to do so...they have since placed a state tax on lotteries winnings and in the pass this was a tax free benefit...in the state of NJ you can not carry over losses from investment losses, year over year...read todays news in NY State waht Gov Coumo is proposing, he is a democrat who soem would contend sounds like a republican, when in fact he is dealing with teh reality the numbers just wont work and can not sustain themselves any longer...REFORM is needed because of BAD POLICIES enacted by bad lawmakers...

So did Christie.

Jason, the older I get the more I have come to see that government is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Our founding fathers built a constitution and country around equality of opportunity. Government now appears to be more about equality of result. I think many countries in Europe are demonstrating now where that leads a nation and no one will like it if we continue on this path for another decade or two. Anyone with grandchildren like I have can't help but see a lower standard of living ahead for them than for their elders.

@ Ridgwood Mom , I am aware of a Kindergarten Teacher making over 90K and I am aware of an advanced math teacher in HS making 55k...so tell me reform is not needed...and its the system that pays them all at the same scale rather than, what they are teaching

@ Jason...elections are fixed by the two ruling parties, the parties control power and with power comes money , once in office they are told what to do by party leaders...I look at our own community and the crap that goes on within the two party system is disgusting,...the selection of professionals, all controlled by the commitees within the organizations...I asked for support from a local councilman and his reponse to me was..."This is not the way it is done" he blamed prior administrations and did nothing to change the game...so we are in a quagmire, no one has the guts to change the system...

Agree.
Conceptually, these programs all make sense. Revisions are needed in their application.

Although only a part of a larger issue, compensation of teachers needs to be overhauled. I am truly baffled as to why the teachers and their union would fight a merit pay plan. I would absolutely support a teacher making 120-150k a year for a top-notch teacher -- provided that poorly performing teachers are let go. Tenure needs to go, and teachers need to contribute more to their benefits.

I think generally, teachers would like to view themselves as salaried professionals, but when the comparisons are drawn between teaching and other private professions (pay for performance, benefits, sick days, pensions vs. 401ks) -- thats when the union cards start coming out with references to their 'contract'.

Mario, i completely agree.

Superintendents are hired by school boards. School boards run by corrupt elected officials may try to (and in many cases do), hire a superintendent who will dole out jobs here and there, to get the school board members re-elected. If you remove tenure, the good teachers are not safe when a corrupted school board is in place. The person protected without tenure, in a corrupted school district, are the exact teachers whom many would wish, be let go. Thus, the reason teachers unions were started.
The administrators who refuse to write up the teachers, the specific Tenure laws created/adopted by past school board votes( to get elected) and bare minimum state requirements for districts are the problem.
Changing tenure/ union contracts via collective bargaining (give and take), will take a long time and (in the short term) be costly. However, the government has, in many cases, the ability to change requirements for receipt of funding. Such changes would enhance the collective bargaining position.
Which elected official is willing to make these changes? Which board members would use the enhanced postion to negotiate? Union members come out and vote.

Bottom line: More people need to vote and be up on the issues of those seeking election.
We are here because of low voter turnout and we will continue to be here until that changes.

Right now the reformers run the BOE in our town. The forces of corruption are very upset w/ that and would prefer to take back control so they can get their hands on that fat school budget again.

Redrider765- Right now hacks who claim to me reformers are running the BOE in Hoboken. Today, for the second year in a row, over 90% of Hoboken's public school children attend a school that has failed to make adequate yearly progress. Today, and for the second year in a row, 3 of 4 schools have failed to meet adequate yearly progress. And for the 2nd year in a row there has been a decline in district wide test scores. One school is now in Level 4 NCLB sanctions. Scores that were boastfully assured to parents of being raised beginning when the reformers took over have plummeted. Legal costs are 130% over the state average, food costs are in the hole for $750,000, and just about EVERY non-tenured person in the district was removed from office with bogus claims. The tide will be changing soon as the "reformers" have screwed up every single aspect of the school district. It's all well documented and will be widely publicized soon---

Redrider765 Also, as you may know---- Most telling is student population has fallen from 2200 students to 1800 in the time that the "reformers" have been in control. Clearly, parents are already voting with their feet. In a few months they will be voting with ballots.

In the past, our district and city had a very bad situation-our town had an 80% increase in municipal taxes, in one year and the district previously had millions of dollars wasted on no show jobs, payoffs etc...These incredible findings and harships led to increased voter turn out and resulted in a new boe and city majority.
Sadly, keeping occasional voters interested is a very arduous task, change takes time and given the great many electons from year to year voter turnout is hit or miss. Stablizing and lowering taxes as well as providing services and materials to students (in some cases to replace 12 year old textbooks) instead of no show jobs, isn't sexy and it seems many voters get comfortable with the idea that everything seems to be "going fine", so it seems, they don't necessarily see the urgency to come to the polls to vote for subsequent elections.
Unfortunately, voter turnout has once again begun declining and it seems to be trending this way for future elections, resulting in the very people who threw the district/city into financial disaster and created a patronage mill for jobs regaining control.
Good luck with your BOE, it isn't easy. The DOE doesn't enforce laws, nor do the courts, it is up to individuals to file charges. Ask any DOE official for help with corruption- the answer they give- "Vote them out!."

Curiouslyobtusegal = corruption apologist. Loves to support the candidates who pass out $40 checks to voters on election day and the folks under investigation by the FBI for hacking into the mayor's email. If she supports something, hold on to your wallet and ask yourself "what's in it for her".

cont...
The district was paying stipends for employees without board authorization or documentation that the work was completed, according to the audit.Additionally, in two schools, student-raised activity funds were used to reimburse teachers for lost articles, like a $400 iPod, according to Board member Theresa Minutillo.Several purchases, for instance janitorial supplies and equipment reconditioning, should have been awarded in a public bidding process, the audit said.
The audit charged that officials miscatagorized administrative costs as student costs, skewering a metric used by the state to assess the district.And then there’s the missing lunch money."
Read more: Hudson Reporter - SCHOOL AUDIT Student money reimbursed teacher for lost iPod Board of Ed hears details of negative audit and test scores officials resign

She will continue ot banter on and on- as will her other hacks- probus, out of control and t burns- the old board member who voted for a 600k payoff to a prior superintendent.

It's not easy to keep change moving forward.

Since Kids First "reformers" took over in Hoboken: 1) % students attending a school that failed to meet federal and state NCLB criteria has gone from 14% to 91%; 2) # of schools failing to make Adequate Yearly Progress has gone from 20% to 75%; 3) addition of "live" agenda items to BOE meetings, avoiding proper public notice. This "reform" group tried to hire a superintendent on a "live" agenda item; 4) Legal costs 130% over the state average led to a recent audit violation; 5) $750,000 cost over run on school lunch this audit after failing to address last year's audit findings on the same topic; 6) failure to grant tenure to nationally recognized theater arts teacher Paul Ohaus who received recognition from NY Times, Times Magazine, New Jersey Monthly; 7) Hoboken High School has gone from "2nd most improved High School in the State of NJ" by NEW JERSEY MONTHLY and national recognition as honorable mention by US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT to a school that has failed to make adequate yearly progress for 2 years in a row; 8) student population is down 18% since the "reformers" took over while 9) charter school population in Hoboken is bursting at the seams.
Real "reformers".....

Don't you have some felons to consort with curiouslyobtusegal? You do realize that the people you support, the corruption they engage in, the mismanagement and waste they have inflicted upon Hoboken are exactly why people in this state are so fed up with the status quo? Calling attention to yourself and supporting the people under constant investigation by the FBI in this town doesn't hurt Christie or reformers in the slightest. You and your friends are what got them elected. Good job there lady, can't wait for the next round of perp walks! I half wonder how many of your friends will be posed by the FBI on the courthouse steps when that happens.

Redrider765- I realize that actual facts have an anti Mayor Dawn Zimmer supported Kids First Board of Education bias which frustrates you very much.

Save your baseless accusations--it's just bully blogging. Looking forward to Zimmer's public endorsement of Kids First, it will make a nice one-two punch on the heals of the St. Patrick's Parade issue.

The only thing that frustrates me about Kids First is not enough honest people bothered to come out and vote for them. It is my sincere hope that the FBI will time the arrest of your new friends to coincide w/ the next round of elections so the vote buyers won't be able to buy enough ballots to buy an election victory. BTW, when are you and your hubby going to show up on Beth Mason's ELEC filings? We all know you don't work for free.

Redrider765- Zimmer's political group, Kids First, will run on their record (whether they want to or not).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsi97HrjyQg
Is Minutillo still disgusted? Given that the district has plummeted since this 2007 video-- I imagine she is......

Speaking of records, your CRIMINAL RECORD will be getting harder "to run on" soon...
Lane Bajardi has NEVER appeared in an ELEC report for Beth Mason or Tim Occhipinti. He appears in this midnight video for Occhipinti's campaign leaders. http://www.hobokenhorse.com/2010/10/grist-for-mill-midnight-monday-meeting.html
Is he credited in Beth Mason's IRS filings? Does he credit her in his tax forms?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/videos/inside-the-fbis-internet-tip-line

Wrong again, Probus. The district had 3/4 schools in SINI under Jack Raslowski. The only reason there weren't 4/4 is because his admin employed the 10r scam, to keep failing scores from showing on the 1tth grade HSPA. That was stopped in 09/10 testing. 09/10 testing without 10r scam showed exactly as would have been expected. 3/4 schools are is sini, due to a lack of resources provided from years of neglect. That is changing now, but it takes time. 2 testing years is not going to show a complete overhaul in an educational faciltiy. There are new principals in 3/4 schools, new administrative staffing, and a new superintendent. The kids are now getting college credits if they apply, there are AP classes, increased remedial classes from 2 to 16. laptops for 7,8 and 9th graders, new textbooks, staff development....the list goes on.
keep spewing your lies and BS. The facts are raslowski and prior admins neglected this system,for decades. there is a paper trail and it will always be published.

The audit examined the operations of the last school year, when the district was run by ex-Superintendent Jack Raslowsky, who left over the summer for Xavier High School in Manhattan.
"Scores diving
Standardized test scores from grades 3 through 8 dropped again this year, according to numbers released by the district last week.
Scores in language arts dropped from a 78.8 average in 2008 to a 66.2 average in 2009; math scores dropped from 64.1 in 2008 to 52.5 in 2009.

probus, i'll post again as you may have missed this:
The audit examined the operations of the last school year, when the district was run by ex-Superintendent Jack Raslowsky, who left over the summer for Xavier High School in Manhattan.
"Scores diving
Standardized test scores from grades 3 through 8 dropped again this year, according to numbers released by the district last week.
Scores in language arts dropped from a 78.8 average in 2008 to a 66.2 average in 2009; math scores dropped from 64.1 in 2008 to 52.5 in 2009.

pied piper- 18% student population decrease; 90% of all students now attending a school that failed to make adequate yearly progress (up from less than 15% pre-Kids First); Nov 2011 audit findings showing excessive legal fees and uncollected food service money; Connors is now in Level 4 NCLB monitoring; Hoboken High School dropped over 50 places on most recent NJ Monthly List of Best High Schools in New Jersey. Kids First openly supported by the mayor of the city after Kids First Minutillo complained of previous mayor "getting involved in school elections", and of course, the introduction of "live" agenda items to the Board meeting agenda to avoid crowds coming to the meeting---like appointing a new superintendent!

Keep worrying about iPod's and 4 year old audit reports--- meanwhile, Rome is burning and Kids First and their supporters are telling us how wonderful things are!

YOUR people put the district in that situation, The new administrastion is trying ot pull them out.

The audit examined the operations of the last school year, when the district was run by ex-Superintendent Jack Raslowsky, who left over the summer for Xavier High School in Manhattan.
"Scores diving
Standardized test scores from grades 3 through 8 dropped AGAIN this year, according to numbers released by the district last week.
Scores in language arts dropped from a 78.8 average in 2008 to a 66.2 average in 2009; math scores dropped from 64.1 in 2008 to 52.5 in 2009.
The district was paying stipends for employees without board authorization or documentation that the work was completed.Additionally, in two schools, student-raised activity funds were used to reimburse teachers for lost articles, like a $400 iPod,Several purchases, for instance janitorial supplies and equipment reconditioning, should have been awarded in a public bidding process
officials miscatagorized administrative costs as student costs, skewering a metric used by the state to assess the district.And then there’s the missing lunch money."
AND 20 REPEAT AUDIT VIOLATIONS
AND the state was going to take over the business dept because YOUR admins failed 4/5 QSAC reports for multiple years.
CURRENT QSAC 90% passing rate in 4/5 QSAC- 18points away from passing #5

You can thank the last 2 admins for the recent improvements in QSAC, finances and attempts to correct years of neglect

pied piper- EVERYTHING I mentioned above has occurred in the past 30+ months under the Mayor Zimmer backed Kids First Board of Education leadership. Including the 20+ point DROP in the most important QSAC score of all--- Instruction and Program. You remember, it was the report that Superintendent Toback and Kids First didn't want to make public until it was presented by a private citizen at a Board meeting this summer:

"The members of Hoboken's board of education were caught off guard on Tuesday night, when a member of the public showed them the results of the annual Quality Single Accountability Continuum (QSAC) district review, which indicated that the the district "did not satisfy at least 80% of the weighed indicators in the area of instruction and program."
http://hoboken.patch.com/articles/hoboken-schools-do-not-meet-adequate-yearly-progress

As always, nothing but lies and spin from you.
So this should fall under "don't believe your lying eyes?" Raslowski placed this distirct in a 3/4 schools failing AYP-Not this admin. This admin is trying to pull the dirstrict out of the spiral your admins created. QSAC scores have gone from 4/5 failing to 4/5 passing with scores of 90% and only 18 points away from passing the 5th.

The district was slated for state takeover when your admin ran it. Davis came in and stopped all the illegal nonsense and corrected to 20 repeat ciolations as well as raised QSAC scores to avoid state takeover.
You can thank the 2 recent admins for cleaning up your admin's messes.

"Scores diving
Standardized test scores from grades 3 through 8 dropped AGAIN this year, according to numbers released by the district last week.
Scores in language arts dropped from a 78.8 average in 2008 to a 66.2 average in 2009; math scores dropped from 64.1 in 2008 to 52.5 in 2009.

as well as the 20 repeat violations and the 4/5 QSAC areas that were in failure while your people ran the BOE.

How stupid do you think the public is?

I took your statement about "socialism" to be in reference to views expressed by persons in this articles comments thread, which is what several others have done above with the deliberate intention of slandering even the most basic forms of progressive taxation. If this the case, then I think that you were being very insulting.

If this was not your point, then I misinterpreted your statements and apologize for my brisk and undue overreaction.

I deleted my last comment after I realized that your usage of the term "socialism" was unconventional. Are you simply using the term to refer to any sort of collective social/government endeavor?

If so, then I don't disagree with your points about there being a necessity for basic infrastructure paid for via taxation, but I think that it is inappropriate to use the term "socialism" given the common associations of our culture and its history with McCarthyism.

Mario Sicari......where do you get the time to post on this site as many times as you do? You are on this this constantly. Tell me how you find the time. I have so many things I could use more time for. Like taking my kids to the circus, volunteering at a homeless shelter, working out.... well you get the picture. Do you have a job, a family a LIFE???? Is there a self help group we can send you to? You need to get a grip, Man!!

Well I guess I feel obligated to say it. Mario is a gentleman. I have appreciated his time.

Tim, he stated multiple times he was a member of the BOE. For all you know, he might be retired or not, but it seems you have run out of ideas to say and have resorted to personal remarks instead of contributing to this discussion. Plus, why aren't you questioning RM's equally numerous comments?

@ TIM...(laughing) None of your business...but hey thanks for your concern...(laughing)

I had deleted it before I saw your response. I didn't mean to back away from "wo-maning up." I deleted it because I realized that it I may have been wrong.

So whom were you referring to as being socialist?

You have my sincere apology Mario, again.

Please scroll up and look at how others have been using the terms Marxism, communism and socialism as epithets and understand where I was coming from.

Also, please note that this more xenophobic usage of the term "socialism" is a common pretext for attacking anything, at all, that the government does. There are many who would go so far as to eliminate public schools. I have sat face to face with people, over dinner, who have flatly stated such to be a desired intention with completely strait faces.

The governor is fat, so what? Should he sit on the sidelines until his weight meets your approval? Should we continue to spend like drunken sailors and borrow from our grand kids because he lacks discipline in one area? This whole comment is one big, fat bad joke.

ThisMeansWar-- Since the Mayor Dawn Zimmer endorsed and supported Kids First "reformers" took over the Hoboken Public School District : 1) % students attending a school that failed to meet federal and state NCLB criteria has gone from 14% to 91%; 2) # of schools failing to make Adequate Yearly Progress has gone from 20% to 75%; 3) addition of "live" agenda items to BOE meetings, avoiding proper public notice. This "reform" group tried to hire a superintendent on a "live" agenda item; 4) Legal costs 130% over the state average led to a recent audit violation; 5) $750,000 cost over run on school lunch this audit after failing to address last year's audit findings on the same topic; 6) failure to grant tenure to nationally recognized theater arts teacher Paul Ohaus who received recognition from NY Times, Times Magazine, New Jersey Monthly; 7) Hoboken High School has gone from "2nd most improved High School in the State of NJ" by NEW JERSEY MONTHLY and national recognition as honorable mention by US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT to a school that has failed to make adequate yearly progress for 2 years in a row; 8) student population is down 18% since the "reformers" took over while 9) charter school population in Hoboken is bursting at the seams.

You keep shouting about made up reports and corruption and doing character assassinations, I'lll stick to the facts of the full extent of the damage and incompetence of Mayor Zimmer's attempt at controlling the public school district.

Curiousgal- you and the Mason group have become politically irrelevant largely because of your skewed agenda. Please stop trolling.

Sticking to the facts? Good idea! It's a fact that...
Lane Bajardi has NEVER appeared in an ELEC report for Beth Mason or Tim Occhipinti. He appears in this midnight video for Occhipinti's campaign leaders. http://www.hobokenhorse.com/2010/10/grist-for-mill-midnight-monday-meeting.html
Is he credited in Beth Mason's IRS filings? Does he credit her in his tax forms?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/videos/inside-the-fbis-internet-tip-line

Grafix Avenger- do you deny you are the Zimmer appointed Zoning Board member Nancy Pincus who had to write a letter of apology to the National Jewish Democratic Council for using Nazi propaganda-inspired graphics to further your political agenda?

http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2010/11/hoboken_blogger_apologizes_for.html

Do you deny you are the Zimmer appointed Zoning Board member Nancy Pincus who threatened the life of an elected councilman in Hoboken and was investigated by law authorities?

"This letter differed from others in that it talked about wanting to join the FBI, saying "I've always wanted to shoot someone. I'd get a gun, right? Well, I'd definitely use it. Alot. Maybe every day ... Only do I ask questions first THEN shoot?" It then mentions that she has a list of people to arrest in town, and that she could shoot their door knob if they didn't answer, or "apply a Vulcan death grip." She gives specific streets and hints about where some of their homes are."

http://hudsonreporter.com/pages/full_story/push?article--Blogger+questioned+by+Hoboken+police-%20&id=15394287&instance=home_Most_popular

Got more questions for me? Don't hesitate to ask....

But you didn't answer the question. Technically you did, just by punking out like always. Don't worry about it. People can smell you and the wife a mile off. But I do have a question....
Why has Lane Bajardi NEVER appeared in an ELEC report for Beth Mason or Tim Occhipinti? He appears in this midnight video for Occhipinti's campaign leaders. http://www.hobokenhorse.com/2010/10/grist-for-mill-midnight-monday-meeting.html
Is he credited in Beth Mason's IRS filings? Does he credit her in his tax forms?
http://www.fbi.gov/news/videos/inside-the-fbis-internet-tip-line

man up and answer the question, are you lane bajardi? and btw, nancy threatening the life of a councilperson? EVERYBODY laughed that one off.

and your answer is...

Wealth accumulation, in most cases as illegal acts can never be condoned, is the result of freedoms we enjoy in our country and of hard honest work. Any move to reduce the tax burden should be shared across the board. You are proposing and support taking freedom from people and you vilify the successful. This is the Obama class warfare rhetoric and I for one am sick of it.

I think Ridgewood Mom is mathematically challenged. A 10% across the board tax cut will result in the tax code being just as progressive as it is today w/ lower rates.

Did Whitman, McGreevey, or COrzine face such sanctions??? No they did not as a matter of fact are rewarded lucrative pensions and benefits...As reported by the Record, many private employees who work as lobbyist for lawmakers are now receiving lucrative pensions from the PUBLIC PENSION FUND, who is held accountable??? Lets look at the disaster that was a project in the Meadowlands, which was going to creat jobs and improve the quality of life in NJ, total failure???what politicians is held accountable...so the problem is we keep payig more taxes in NJ and it seems the BRAINCHILDS we elect keep making the same stupid mistakes over and over and over again, so when do the people in NJ say ENOUGH, when do we as a collective State say democrats, republicans, right, left, liberal, conservative, you need to be held accountable for stupidity...

Sorry Dan. I'll stop for you.

I have to say sorry again Dan, because I now realize that I can not stop. :)

It is only proportionate to the tax burden they bear. Fact is, the tax code is inherently disproportionate do to the fact that the more you make, the higher rate you pay. But go ahead and ignore that convenient fact as you continue to justify redistributing the hard earned money of taxpayers into the hands of others.

Of course it is a particularized cut for the very wealthy. Did your municipal taxes not go up last year, largely to compensate for the decreases in state funding? Will middle and lower income workers get more then a hundred or a couple hundred dollars out of this? Will it outpace local tax increases and the increased cost of living? Not even close. Will very high income workers much greater sums, in some cases that do outpace these increases elsewhere?

Why not a tax credit for a specific amount, regardless of income? Why not specifiable breaks for middle and lower incomes workers who constitute the majority of New Jerseyans? These alternatives are well within the realm of what Christie knows he can do.

Whatever you want to call it, it is about cutting essential public services for most New Jerseyans in order to pay for specified tax breaks for the very wealthy.

Thanks Mel.

I can afford to live in the state of NJ. I have a home in Florida and will live there 186 days a year and in the spring and summer come back up north. I will be a Florida resident and Florida has no state income tax. I will not pay any NJ income tax as I will no longer be a resident. I will enjoy the best time of the year up north weather wise. I will be saving a substantial sum each year by living in Florida 186 days a year. I am one of millions who leave NJ and NY and other high state income tax States for Florida for 186 days a year to save $ and enjoy the wamer weather. Oh and estate taxes too! All retirees with the means leave NJ and Retire for part of the year in Florida and NJ loses those tax revenues. I wonder if the tax burden was lower if any of them would stay NJ residents and if so would the absolute NJ tax revenues go up despite rate being lowered?

That mentality is so awesome. Drive all the taxpayers out of the state b/c you don't want to control spending. Works so awesomely that Illinois is hell bent on trying your idea out and they have successfully driven many businesses and high income earners into neighboring states. Tax collections are missing projections over there, their borrowing costs are up and they now enjoy the lowest credit rating in the country. They are America's version of Greece.

I will enjoy not paying over 50k per year to NJ. I also leave knowing that that number will continue to rise.

Yes "Red" and "Concerned." You and Christie are opposed to taxes for wealthy individuals. The goal is to cut essential public services (public school destruction via "reform," etc.) that benefit most working and middle class New Jerseyans in order to put more money in the pockets of those very wealthy.

That will save me over 250k every five years. Anyone would be crazy to stay.

Yes Jerry, you and Christie feel that the wealthy pay more then their fair share and would like to see less spending on essential public services that benefit most working and middle class New Jerseyans in order to put more money in the pockets of the very wealthy.

Florida has no income tax and neither does Tenn or Texas. Florida also has a lower sales tax than NJ. Florida has benefited from a migration from the high tax states such as NJ, NY, Illinois to name a few. Florida has a more efficient local structure to provide services to their residents. Property taxes in Florida are comparable to NJ perhaps a little less than NJ. It's a great question that Trenton should study and benchmark states like Florida.

1. a tax cut that cuts taxes for everyone doesn't just benefit the wealthy.
2. you are wrong if you think cutting spending means cutting services. There is absolutely no reason why the government can't find ways to do more w/ less. If cost savings can be achieved by businesses year in and year out and they can find ways to make the same products for less money then why can't government do the same? Oh yeah, the unions. They don't want efficiency b/c that means they have to work harder and it might cost them some jobs.

Whatever your income, the more it is the more you will benefit from such a break.

Of course Jerry, you are welcome to think that is a good thing. I am content agreeing to disagree with you on that, here. But let's be clear that this is exactly what Christie is doing.

1. Tax cuts that specifically benefit the wealthy.
2. Cuts in services in order to further those tax cuts.

RM - do you even realize you contradict yourself in this post? A tax cut that we all get, whatever our income by default cannot target specifically one group of taxpayers. And perhaps you may not get this, but if your local municipality just stopped wasting money, it could easily absorb the loss of some state aid and not have to cut any services.

So proportionately less tax for those who make more, like Christie is trying to do. Right?

Christie's thoughts exactly.

Amen. I bet Ridgewood Mom is a teacher or public employee in some capacity. She is apparently a firm believer in handouts.

This is the only country in the world where the poor can actually be fat from all the handouts the government gives.

I would like my 10% back because my kids need o go to Disney.

I say in a free society, no one should be obligated under penalty of imprisonment to support someone else who is not legally dependent upon them. On the other hand, in a moral society, no one should go uncared for by charitable activities. Today, we see society less free and less moral. And it's precisely because government is taking away personal liberty, that standards of personal responsibility are eroded. I've said it before, government is in a parasitcal relationship to society. Small parasites often are beneficial. The government has grown to be too large a parasite and has become detrimental.

Tom, guessing you read "The Road to Serfdom" as well?

No, red, I haven't read "The Road to Serfdom" ... yet. But I like the Wikipedia synopsis of it. We are in a great philosophical/moral struggle right now. A civilization unmoored from the dictates of personal responsibility won't last long. All of this popular collectivism is self-destructive in the end.

You will like it. Read it a few years ago at the suggestion of a friend. Good read when you have time to do some contemplative thinking like at the beach.